Liisa Wallennius: 

Hello everybody. 

This is a podcast on networking and career design on Porvoo campus. 

I’m Liisa Wallenius, Senior Lecturer at Haaga-Helia, Porvoo campus. And with me in the studio I have Kirsi LaPointe, my colleague and co-teacher on this networking and career design course with creative activities, testing, reflections, students learning about themselves and building alternative career paths. We discuss how the course on Porvoo campus has helped students build alternative career paths together, taking part in wellbeing activities and being involved in do good projects in the local community. 

Kirsi, would you like to start with introducing yourself? 

Kirsi LaPointe: 

Thank you, Liisa. I am Kirsi LaPointe and I work here at Haaga-Helia as a Senior Lecturer in HR and leadership, mostly on Pasila campus and mostly in the master’s degree on leading business transformations. My areas of expertise are in wellbeing and learning, and development and career design. And I also advise master’s thesis students and work in research and development projects. One of them is this Integra (project) where I also got to teach in this networking and career design course. 

Liisa Wallennius: 

Thank you, Kirsi. And this Integra, it is a project now finished, but a project offering low threshold support for Porvoo campus international students. Career design and work wellbeing being your speciality areas is why we invited you to the course. 

The idea is to help students get started with their studies and in adapting into their new environments. That is international students who just arrived in Finland. 

Another thing is getting to learn to know the business environment in Porvoo and in Finland on the whole. So, if we think about the core of the course, how would you describe the philosophy or the guiding principles of this career design approach? 

Kirsi LaPointe: 

Yes, I would like to start with the wellbeing, which you already mentioned as being one of the main objectives of this course in general, because the objective of career design really is to help students develop sustainable careers. So, we’re not just focusing on whether they will be employable, whether they will get a job, even though that of course is important. 

But it’s also about their ability to think about their careers in the long term and develop the kind of skills that the world of work nowadays needs. So, wellbeing is more and more of a concern for our students. And what I talk about in addition to that is how they can find meaningful work in their careers. 

And then if you think about career design as an approach, it’s not like a specific model or a theory. It’s a combination of different things, but I think it can be best described if we think about what it is not. So, if we compare it to this kind of traditional career planning, which was developed in the world where we were sort of matching individuals to some existing jobs and careers, because we assume that both the individual and the career stay the same. 

And now we don’t live in that kind of world anymore. The careers are not predictable. We are not really choosing some existing path, but we are creating that ourselves. So, it’s not so much about rational decision making. It’s about actually creativity of how you design your own path. And for that, you need to be adaptable. 

And the key aspect of career design is that you need to be self-directed. You need to be able to guide your own steps. And the other part is that if you need to direct your path, you need to know where you’re going. And that’s where your identity becomes important. So, you need to know who you are and where you want to go so that you can direct where you’re going. 

Liisa Wallennius: 

Yeah, quite so. Thank you. I’m thinking of the self-directness, how you need to plan for yourself and make the decisions. And then sort of build skills to do that and to have adaptability. 

I should think that this is a new way of thinking and building careers. I should think that it’s challenging for students, for some students to start looking at career planning like this. What do you say? 

Kirsi LaPointe: 

Yes, it can be challenging. But then again, if we teach that in the course right away, then you kind of learn to think in a new way. And in a sense, it’s all about alternatives. That’s what we kind of want to focus on is that you’re not thinking that there is that one job and path for you that you need to know what it is. 

It’s more about, okay, this is something that you would like, but what if that doesn’t work? What’s your plan B and what’s your plan C and so on? So, this is something that is a skill that we can teach them already during their years at the university that they will need also in the world of work. 

Liisa Wallennius: 

Yes. So, the skills in working life. Of course, once they recognize their strengths and they have an idea of alternatives they’re planning for. So, that it (having alternatives) will make their study planning also easier. 

Then they can steer the study path and think in a clearer (way) what do I need to learn more if I wish to take that path? So that could be helpful.  

So, you mentioned a couple of times already the creative activities. And of course, I’ve seen them in class and then I’ve taken part in themselves and enjoyed, even though I’m not planning a new career at the moment. 

But could you share and give examples of some activities you do in class to foster this creativity? 

Kirsi LaPointe: 

Yeah, that’s first of all, I wanted to say that many times if we start talking about creativity, the first reaction is that, well, I’m not creative, so this must not be for me. 

So, the whole point of the class is of course that kind of develop this kind of safe environment and just use the exercises where everyone will see through the exercises that they are creative. 

But yeah, if you normally think about career planning, it’s often this very cognitive task that think about this and analyze this. And here we kind of use a different approach because a lot of these things about self-awareness are things that we don’t actually know each other so well. 

Some of the values that are important might be kind of hidden or the real kind of desires that we have might be buried under all those expectations that we’ve already sort of collected on the way. 

So, the exercises that we use in class, I mean, we could do all kinds of different art-based exercises that these are things that are easy to do that we don’t need a lot of different materials. 

So, a lot of these visualization exercises, for example, where they don’t need to necessarily use words, but just draw something so that they can more connect with some ideas like in a fast fashion. That’s a very typical thing. 

Or in any kind of even, well, mind map actually is a creative exercise, even though it can be also analytical, but it can be used to help ideation. 

We also use narratives that can be considered a tool, but it’s also very creative because once again, it’s a tool that engages your imagination and it helps you kind of think beyond just the facts that you have and beyond just what’s on your CV, but thinking about what your story is. 

And then it will include values and feelings and engage you as a whole person. 

Liisa Wallennius: 

Yes. And I also recall that you have students share their work and their plan, and also give feedback. And if a student describes themselves, so then also that others in the group give ideas and descriptions. So, this could be, and this can be very helpful, how you see yourself and how your classmates have learned to know you. So, so giving more ideas to noting down your strengths. 

How do you see your students reacting to the working methods, to these different activities? 

And you told earlier that it’s bachelor students (and), it’s master students with whom I understand you also do something similar or a course on similar. 

Kirsi LaPointe: 

Yeah.  

I haven’t seen any resistance to the exercises, but then again, we’re in a class where they get credit. So, they usually do what they’re told to do. 

But as a facilitator, I’m very aware of the fact that some people might be, like I said, they might feel that they’re not creative or something. But I always try to kind of create this safe environment so that they have the option of doing it their way. Even if I tell them to hear you’re supposed to draw something. But then I’m saying like, okay, if you really feel like you don’t want to, you don’t need to share the work with anyone, but you can still use words.  
So, I give them options. And also, one reaction I have gotten is that from some students coming from different cultural backgrounds, they might feel that it’s something very personal that they’re asked to share. And there I’m always bringing that point that, well, actually in Finland, it’s not enough that you just have your degree and you take your courses, but you’re going to work as a whole person. And they’re expecting to see your motivation. They will talk about your values. So, you need to be able to express that also at work and bring it out the way that you feel, comfortable with. But in any case, even if you don’t always share that, you will need that for guiding the path and your peers, that’s what I tell them, the peers are like a very good practice group in that sense. And no one ever has to share anything that personal that they would not want to. 

Liisa Wallennius: 

Yes, quite. And our groups are quite small and give a safe environment so they can practice and enjoy the activities. 

During this course, we also had the wellbeing part. And now that you should mention that people think that they can’t be, they aren’t creative. So, what we offered as one of the wellbeing activities, (is) to show how different hobbies and doing different things than you usually do. 

So, we offered a painting class for the students. Some had noted it, but then some came to class that day and they had no idea what was there waiting for them. And the reaction was, oh no, I can’t do this. But then in the end, they all enjoyed it. And then it was just joining the method and joining, following the instructions. And then they all created wonderful pieces of art during that class. 

So, the idea in the wellbeing part is to have students think more that they are in balance. 

So, it’s not only studies and work and family, but then that they do need, and it helps to have some own time. And then the importance of exercise, sleep, nutrition, and also that yes, they will need to talk about that and to share their ideas. That it’s not only shop talk. 

Liisa Wallennius: 

And the third element of the course is this do good. Once they are in the new environment in Porvoo and thinking of how they pursue their studies and perhaps new careers, then they are in the new environment and they are to create an event for the local citizens, for the local students and so forth. 

And the idea there is that they also get to experience working in teams, creating an event, working together, and then having a chance to meet people outside campus. 

And it has been quite an eye opener to students and something that has encouraged them to use the local language, use Finnish, and then get to know other people in town. 

Kirsi LaPointe: 

Yeah. And it also, the volunteering was also connected to important part of the career design, which was to focus on work that’s meaningful to you. 

That you’re not just focusing on how you get ahead in your own career. 

So, it’s thinking about what kinds of people, what kinds of causes would you like to be working for or devote your working time to. 

And the other ways that those projects also helped the career design approach was that you can think of all these projects that you do during your studies as some kind of an experiment of what you can learn about yourself and your interests and about meaningful work. 

So, I think they were really a key aspect of the course. 

Liisa Wallennius: 

All right. Then let’s continue. 

I’m thinking of this sort of new way of thinking of your career. 

And then choosing where to volunteer and think of your own interest, your own passions, perhaps. I like the idea that we do not think of, okay, you need to volunteer because it looks good on your CV. But (you) volunteer and do good because it gives so much back to you and it brings meaning into your life. 

Now thinking of the course on the whole and the students planning of their future. 

What would you say, do you think students struggle a lot? 

And at this point, the economical situation is not that great in Finland or any part of the world, 

there are political problems, too. 

Kirsi LaPointe: 

Yeah. There’s a lot of problems that particularly our international students are facing. 

The unemployment situation of course concerns everyone. And sometimes of course when the students are just worried about whether they will have a job when they graduate or whether they even have a job for the summer. And then here I’m talking about meaningful work and these kinds of things. And it might seem like there’s some kind of a mismatch there. 

 
But I think that the problem here is that when the students are panicking and trying to figure things out in this kind of chaotic world, we have this normal tendency, human tendency, that we’re trying to control it. We’re trying to predict it. 

We’re trying to think like, okay, so what is sort of expected from me in this situation? 

And what happens as a result of this kind of process is that we kind of narrow down our options in a way that we’re not thinking creative anymore. We’re just trying to think like the first thing comes to your mind. And then as a result, everyone’s applying for the same open positions. 

And then it’s not the way to go, not the most successful strategy to begin with. 

So, then what we are kind of thinking here is that helping the decision-making is kind of like helping to broaden their options, making it more sort of like thinking of creative ways of going about it. And then building on their motivation in a way of kind of like, well, if you really think about what is unique about yourself and then you make connections based on that, then you can find more customer solutions and you’re not necessarily competing with the same people. 

So yeah, that’s kind of like, we’re showing them a different way of going forward. 

And the other thing that the course accomplishes also, like in addition to these things that we’ve done, like the art class that directly benefit their wellbeing, is that when they find out that, okay, this world of work is like this and it really cannot be controlled. I can’t really predict it. 

Then they learn to live with that uncertainty and we kind of create that space in the course. 

And so, during their studies already, they will feel a little bit better about it, that they don’t need to be so obsessed and worried constantly. 

But they can see, okay, there are all these little steps that I can do already. 

Now I can do this little project. I can learn more about myself. 

Make it sort of more inspiring for them to figure out what they want to do instead of being in this kind of like panic mode. And doing something that you know, you end up not liking at all. 

And that’s what goes completely against the idea of having a sustainable career in the long run. 

Liisa Wallennius: 

Yes. 

I remember from class you telling that, well, yes, it is okay. 

You don’t need to have a plan ready. That it’s okay. 

And then that was then for some of the students, they said that they were, I see that they were in the panicking. Oh no, this is my second year. This is my third year, or third year is starting soon. 

And I don’t know, I don’t have an idea what to do. I like what I’m studying, but then still, I don’t know. 

So then sort of calming down and thinking that, well, yes, you have time. And then that, well, in this world, everybody is changing careers and everybody’s learning more. That you have to develop yourself all the time. So that being the point. 

Liisa Wallennius: 

I remember some of the activities from the class when they were sort of even making this crazy career plan. Sort of, well, type if you won in the lottery. So, what would you do and what would your career be then like. 

And then there’s this activity of taking your career design plans and interviewing somebody. 

Sort of interviewing a professional, perhaps a role model you have. So, I guess that was quite insightful for the students. 

Kirsi LaPointe: 

Yeah. 

I mean, some of the students might have heard, we’ve heard about these informational interviews before. But here it was more like introduced that it’s really about also kind of you learn, well, it is learning more about that field of work. But you’re at the same time, you’re networking. 

And nothing’s really limiting yourself to like to make more of those. 

And one of the reasons that we do that activity is that a lot of times when we’re planning our careers, we actually don’t do much. We just think about things. And then we make decisions or choose an area where we’re going to work and so on. 

But this focus in career design is that in addition to thinking, you need to do things. 

You need to feel things. You need to experiment. And so, this is also one way of that you’re testing your plans actually. It’s not so much about learning more but getting the feeling whether this sounds like the right thing to do. 

Liisa Wallenius:  

And then this goes deeper than just networking and meeting people from different companies, let’s say, at a job fair that we have often. Because then you have more time and you can concentrate and you perhaps visit the workplace, and you see more. So, you get better confirmation. 

All right. 

Then I’m thinking of like the last bit of the course as the course ends. So, they will have, or they build their career design portfolios. And then they also finalize their learning diaries. 

So, what we have done in the course is from the very beginning, sort of a learning diary or learning notes. Sort of setting goals and then noting down ideas, thoughts during the course. 

And then in the end, reflecting and thinking that, okay, what did I get and what was there for me. 

How did I develop. 

Which I think is quite nice, and something that can carry them then on, even after the course. 

Seeing that, okay, what did I do and what did I think. 

So, is there anything, Kirsi, you recall from the diaries or from the courses, sort of student insights or student comments? 

Kirsi LaPointe: 

Yes. Yes. I mean, it has times, I think one of the most important thing has been that students comment that they haven’t really ever had the time or place to think about these kinds of things. 

And this is something that I know for a fact that happens in a way that we just tend to, like, we talk about these stories and narratives a lot. And in a way, we’re all living by a certain story. 

And when I’m trying to explain this to the students, I often say that, okay, you might, they might struggle a little bit that, well, I don’t understand what that means. And then I always say that, well, if you are, you came here to study, so you’re obviously living by a story that you think that it’s a good idea to get a university degree and that’s the way to go forward. 

So, you take, normally the narratives are something we take for granted. So, kind of questioning some of these kinds of things, they have kind of opened their eyes to that. 

But most, mostly, usually the more insightful things or insights that they get have to do when they recognize some really important values or strengths that they have. And then they realize that, okay, I haven’t been, like, building my career so far around them. That I’ve been just following this path that I think that I should be doing. Maybe I’m interested in the area, but I haven’t thought about it so much. 

And then when they kind of connect with that, that’s when you kind of, that’s the kind of main objective of the course, the increased self-awareness. When you have that, it’s so much easier for you to make the decisions along the path. 

Liisa Wallennius: 

Yes, quite so. 

I think we’ve discussed most aspects of the course and then… 

So, thinking back to the diaries, noticed how students appreciate this course where they can focus on themselves, reflect and plan and think. 

And they’ve noticed that this is a class where they can develop themselves and they don’t need to be ready at the end of the course. So, there is no final plan ready. 

And that, and they will realize that, well, career planning, it’s a lifelong process. 

So, thank you, Kirsi. It’s been a pleasure talking to you. 

And it’s been a pleasure co-teaching this course with you and our colleague Niina Moilanen. 

Thank You who are listening to this podcast. This is, as I said earlier, a part of the Integra project. 

And you can learn more at our website and at Haaga-Helia eSignals. We have couple of articles (there) and other work we have done. 

Thank you.